difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors

Last one . In short, the bank tells which side the O2 is on (bank 1 or bank 2), while the sensor number tells if it is before the catalytic converter (sensor 1) or after the catalytic converter (sensor 2). The code P0420 can be caused by the catalyst, O2 sensors before and after the catalyst. So why is the light still on? *At Pico we are always looking to improve our products. Since the oxygen sensor is in the exhaust stream, it can become contaminated. Bringing the BMW community together. JavaScript is disabled. Top wire: White heater (+) The downstream oxygen sensor detects the change and informs the vehicles computer. Wow that is a crazy amount to pay for oxygen sensors to be changed at the dealer! Phase I=140whp Phase II=230whp Phase III=Cant tell the clutch pedal from the brake! AU $129.99 + AU $45.00 postage . In turn, the computer activates the check engine light and logs code P0430. The sensor is inoperative below 300 C. 2001 camaro z28 ss vert with factory slp upgrades, Hooker long tubes, 3"y-pipe to a 4" muffler, ,airlid,s.s.r.a. Both pre-cat sensors are identical. What is the difference between pre cat O2 sensor and Post car O2 sensor in term of sensor wise(not. Remember that bank 1 is determined by the side where cylinder number 1 is located. Each vehicle may be different and require unique test Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Tighten the sensor to the recommended torque. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. $64.34 . Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members Depending on the engine design, vehicles can have multiple oxygen sensors, sometimes on both sides of the engine. Do universal sensors work, well yes. Not having ordered on the internet before i didnt struggle at all. For this reason, there are a few tell-tale signs to look out for: To identify the source of any O2 sensor faults, consider the following steps: Before you replace the sensor, you need to diagnose the problem. Why am I still getting a P0420 code after I replaced my catalytic converter? The difference between the two is about $1,000.. You will see that, The pre catalytic converter sensor signal. You must use the correct ones, whether oem with the correct length cable and plug, or the correct "universal" equivalent, that will require you to measure and splice your old plug onto it. Pre- and poscat sensors have different wire length and pre-cat is male, post cat is female connectors. Lambda sensors have an internal heater, so check the resistance of the heater it will usually be quite low. Whereas wide-band is 1V -5V, allowing for more detail when not at ideal operating conditions. please help all stuff is breaking this wknd !! The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". Bank 2 Sensor 2 is the second sensor on the engine's exhaust pipe, usually behind the catalytic converter. The O2 sensor is part of the emissions system of your car that measures the proportion of oxygen in your engine. Now reconnect the diagnostic tool and delete any related fault codes. Fantastic products and support with unbelievable performance for the money. Sort of yes. Oxygen molecules from the exhaust gas pass through tiny slots or holes in the sensors steel shell to reach the sensing element, or nernst cell. It is the responsibility of visitors to satisfy themselves that goods and/or services supplied by any advertiser are bona fide and in no instance can the Porsche Club Great Britain be held responsible. These Remove passenger side front Use the factory wire retainers i I would start looking for a air leak in the intake boot or intake runner valve. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. OEM numbers are obviously different. A forum community dedicated to BMW owners and enthusiasts. Hover to zoom. I cant help with the torque readings (or the tech builtin above but I'll keep going) but its easy to forgot that the O2 sensor is only reporting what it's seeing and the default reaction of replacing the O2 sensor is literally just shooting the messenger. AU $309.99 + AU $45.00 postage . A vehicles (bank 2, sensor 2) O2 sensor will be located behind or downstream of the catalytic converter on the bank which corresponds to the engines second cylinder. 17539 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; sensor location. 2012 BMW 328i (F30) 2.0L N20 - PRE / POST CAT O2 OXYGEN LAMBDA PROBE SENSOR SET . O2 Oxygen Sensor Kit For Mazda CX-7 2006-2012 2.3 Turbo Petrol (both sensors) New . Contact the seller. It does not store any personal data. Narrowband = typical lambda/oxygen sensor. I then tried a front universal and all was well. Post-cat O2 sensors have much longer wires thus they cost a bit more. Read any fault codes using a diagnostic tool. Wide band O2 sensors have an additional O2 pumping cell to regulate the amount of oxygen present in the sensing element. Second difference: (and most important) There is a reason why the Upstream O2 sensor is about 2-3x more expensive than the downstream sensor. I have two new original postcat sensors. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. $80.43 . Could I buy universal one, if not why? Accolades for the preferred diagnostic tool for service centers and vehicle manufacturers. Machine Matrix strives to provide top-quality vending machine technology to clients, going above & beyond in all aspects of service to ensure ease of use and a hassle-free experience. This allows for best signal acquisition. In an effort to diagnose the faulty component I have been monitoring the pre and post cat O2 sensors using the graph displays on the Torque OBD2 app, but I need some help understanding the readings. Come discuss mods, horsepower, engine specs and more! How do I know if its my upstream or downstream O2 sensor? This is called open loop mode. She is a proud owner of a BMW M3 and has been an active member of the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America (BMW MOA) for many years. A constant high voltage output from the Zirconia shows that the engine is running constantly rich and is outside the ECM's adjusting range; whereas a low voltage indicates a lean or weak mixture. In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. All three O2 sensors are intechangeable. Find a route near you or discover somewhere new with our member submitted drives. The time taken for a good trace may vary between 30 seconds to 2 minutes. I know there wasnt a difference on my 02 SS. This is due to the fact that bank 2 is representative of an engines #2 cylinder, while sensor 2 serves as a downstream designation. 06-29-2005 08:28 PM. Other tooling or equipment may be required to determine if it is the actual sensor and not the wiring that is causing the problem. O2 Sensor Location. You just need to get one precat O2 sensor. This help topic is subject to changes without notification. The catalytic converter is where you will find the sensors. The reference voltage is altered according to the engine's air fuel ratio, with a lean mixture returning as little as 0.4 volt and a rich mixture producing in the region of 4.0 volts. We have good news! Thanks! Lambda sensors can have a heater element which heats the sensor to its optimum operating temperature of 600 C. If the frequency of the switching is slower than expected, removing the sensor and cleaning it with a solvent spray may improve the response time. SpyderChat Forum is a community for Toyota MR2 Spyder Enthusiasts to discuss specs, reliability and more! Definitely start with the sensors. The voltage range, in most cases, varies between 0.2 and 0.8 volts: 0.2 volts indicates a lean mixture and 0.8 V shows a richer mixture. Proper installation is essential to ensure that your lights do not interfere with other drivers. Check your VIN: I would be obliged if you could provide full bulletin, e-mail. 2nd wire: White heater (-) The difference is the wire length. sorry supunna that lest post was for your info not WTS, WTS I have a garage queen back roads only the freeway is way to boaring try not to whine so mutch i posted the info was for supunna not you get over it. The pre-cat sensor regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. The downstream oxygen sensor(s) are located in the exhaust pipe, behind the catalytic converter. Then use a spanner or dedicated O2 socket wrench - to unscrew the sensor from its seating. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. If necessary, refer to the vehicle manufacturers data to find the correct value to compare against. Is a brake light and running light the same? The most commonly used sensor has a Zirconia element, producing a voltage when there is a difference in oxygen content between the two electrodes. Form: Not sure if the sensor itself is any different but I know the connectors are (at least on the 04's) 2004 Yellow M6, 1 of 1014 27 sold . Because many late model vehicles have multiple oxygen sensors, be sure you correctly identify the bad sensor so you do not mistakenly replace the wrong one. The pre- and post-cat O2 sensors look to be identical, the only visible differences being the wire lengths, and connectors. Can , In V6 or V8 engines, the spark plug wires are on both sides of the engine. The Waveform Library is a global database of waveforms uploaded by PicoScope users. The POST-cat O2 sensors are the only ones effected. Content on spyderchat.com is generated by its users. Sensor 2 is the downstream oxygen sensor. It is also exposed to extremely high temperatures, and like any component can wear over time. While , And despite their simplicity, a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for a small investment. Information can be obtained from the operator or the white pages. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! The difference in the amount of oxygen between that present in the outside air, and that present in the exhaust promotes the flow of oxygen ions and produces voltage. Heres something you probably dont know: after clearing the cars computer you will need to drive for about 50 to 100 miles. ,t.c.bypass,descreened m.a.f. Too much fuel produces hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide. Bank 2 Sensor 1 is the first sensor closest to the engine. So essentially bmw did a change to the DME which came with different sensors, the wide-band I mentioned, in 2003. Inspect the electrical connector for damage or dirt. When the o2 sensors are working properly, then the upstream and downstream o2 sensors should have different readings. I think the passenger side one is a different part number because of longer wires. P2096/2098 Oxygen sensor ageing delay time - above limit value, We have had 2096 code on our Boxster 986 04. We use cookies to optimize our website and our service. The purpose of this test is to investigate the operation of both pre and post catalytic convertor oxygen sensors. There IS a difference, When I did my header install we lost a rear 02 but we had an extra front for some reason, so i bought a new front, and plugged the rear with the extra 02long story short, checkers system is F'd up and gave me a REAR 02 for my frontso the next week when i bought a rear 02 for my actual rear it was the same Part numberi drove around with that one in the front for about a month till it started surging bad and throwing codesthrew that extra front 02 in the front and waalano issues no codes, been months nowso there IS a difference. Delphi Technologies is a brand of BorgWarner Inc. Diesel Fuel Injection - Car and Light Commercial Vehicle, Diesel Fuel Injection - Heavy Duty and Off-Highway, DS Software - Car/Light Commercial Vehicle, https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/delphi-technologies-aftermarket/, https://www.youtube.com/DelphiTechnologies. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. 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Inspect the exhaust manifold and fuel injectors for leaks as well as the condition of the ignition components these may affect sensor operation. Apply a clean and reusable pulse oximeter sensor to either foot. Is upstream pre or post cat? Picture Information. Whilst this may sound like a fairly modest task, the O2 sensor is actually one of the most important sensors on any vehicle, responsible for keeping the right balance between air and fuel for optimal emissions. I was very impressed as to the speed and ease of ordering. Okay so essentially from my understanding, hopefully, someone chimes in. Are Bank 1 and Bank 2 O2 sensors the same? You must use the correct ones, whether oem with the correct length cable and plug, or the correct universal equivalent, that will require you to measure and splice your old plug onto it. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. Don't do it. If they have the same reading, then it indicates that the catalytic converter is damaged. tuned with EFI Live. 4th wire: Grey - earth. How many miles do you have to drive to reset oxygen sensor? Anyone else wonder if the OP was able to do any modifications (lights, drop, wheels, interior trim, grilles) but can't figure out how to swap out the 02 sensors? These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Required fields are marked *. Your email address will not be published. Most cars have at least two oxygen sensors located throughout the exhaust system; at least one in front of the catalytic converter and one or more downstream from the catalytic converter. Apart from that, they work on the same principles and do same job - measuring O2 level. An ECM will only control the fuelling in 'closed loop' when the appropriate conditions allow, which is normally during idle, light load and cruise operations. It is always going to be located after the catalytic converter. New . Does it matter which 02 sensor goes where? The difference in the amount of oxygen between that present in the outside air, and that present in the exhaust promotes the flow of oxygen ions and produces voltage. To protect against the sensor becoming welded into its threading, Delphi sensors come with anti-seize compounds either pre-applied or included in the box. It lets you see what you previously had to guess was happening. Pico Technology accepts no responsibility for inaccuracies. The Titania Oxygen sensor differs from the Zirconia sensor in that it is incapable of producing its own output voltage and is therefore reliant on a 5-volt supply from the vehicle's ECM. functioning wise) Also, where can I buy a cheaper O2 sensor? Minimize the help page. Even though both O2 sensors are four wire, heated O2 sensors, there are definitely differences that the Motronic can detect. It is what tells your cars ECU when the AFR goes rich, stoic, or lean. A4 (B5 Platform) Discussion. Closing out this thread for the troubleshooting masses. Sensor 1 is the sensor closest to the engine. Cornbury House, Cotswold Business Village sledhead. Four-cylinder engines have two sensors, while V6 and V8 engines have four sensors. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Copyright 2022 Machine Matrix L.L.C. On Bank 2 means it is at the engine side with cylinders 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. $89.05 . Where as before 2003, they were like yours using all 4 regular. All combined to achieve 29 m.p.g. So any cars made after 2003 only used those regular ones for downstream. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. The tools used in this guided test may have been superseded and the products above are our latest versions used to diagnose the fault documented in this case study. Where is the downstream oxygen sensor located? Most oxygen sensors come with a special electrically conductive anti-seize compound applied to the threads, so its merely a matter of threading the new sensor into the void left by the old one. A typical Zirconia lambda sensor has four wires. . Check the condition of the probe element protective tube for signs of damage and contamination. This information is an example of our investigations and findings and is not a definitive procedure. Other than the connector, is there a difference? Is bank 2 O2 sensor upstream or downstream? We know that our PicoScope users are clever and creative and wed love to receive your ideas for improvement on this test. Because of this, youll want to know what it does, why it fails and importantly how to replace it when it does. However, bank 1 has two sensors, of which sensor 1 is located near the engine before the catalytic converter, an upstream sensor called pre-CAT, and sensor 2 is located after the catalytic converter called post CAT, a downstream sensor. Poor fuel economy: a faulty oxygen sensor will upset the air to fuel mixture resulting in increased fuel usage. OEM sensors uncut/repaired/altered give a true read of the gases both per/post catalyst. When responding to advertisements please ensure that you satisfy yourself of any applicable call charges on numbers not prefixed by usual "landline" STD Codes. 2012 AUDI A6 (C7) 2.0L CAEB - PRE / POST CAT O2 OXYGEN LAMBDA PROBE SENSOR SET-2 . Could I buy universal one, if not why? Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Such information, advice and assistance provided by such persons is given in good faith and is based on the personal experience and knowledge of the individual concerned. The information within is carefully checked and considered to be correct. However I'll defer to your knowledge with working at Bosch. A switching voltage on the post-cat sensor indicates that the gases are passing across the catalytic converter's ceramic monolith without being subjected to chemical change and therefore the cat requires replacing with a known good unit, providing that the pre-cat waveform is within specification. Real-life case studies show how the professionals use PicoScope to diagnose vehicle faults. If the exhaust gas mixture is too rich and there is too little oxygen in the exhaust, a signal is sent to the engines Electronic Control Unit (ECU) to decrease the amount of fuel added into the cylinder. The o2 (oxygen) sensor. read the wiki, all common air leask are there, hi y have 2 codes po155 heated oxygen sensor bank2 sensor 1 (ho2s21) sensor heater circuit and po135 heated oxygen sensor bank 1 sensor 1 (ho2s11) sensor heater some vary can tell me the locations on this sensor and part #s or were i can buy it cheap thanks. What's wrong with this picture? Correct, yes that's the one. Contact information for direct sales and support queries, plus our network of global distributors. I tried a couple of them and got codes before I even started the car. Are the sensors indeed the same functionally? These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. All Rights Reserved. Their bodies are identical, so the threads. o2 sensors where is bank 2 sensor 1. bjones. Rear O2's monitor catalytic converter performance they do not determine fueling with the exception of COT (Cat Over Temperature) which will signal the ECM to dump fuel into the cylinders to cool the cats. Vehicle manufacturers identify bank1 vs. bank2 and front / rear vs. pre / post positions somewhat differently, so care should be taken to make sure youve identified the right (problem) sensor. Its job is to monitor the oxygen content exiting the catalytic converter in order to determine if it is operating efficiently. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. Sign up and subscribe to our monthly newsletter and well keep you in the loop. Yes, if the connector plugs are the same (on the 2001 Camaro they are) By nathans1987 in forum Gen III V8 Specific, By charlieNchains in forum Vortec V6/V8 Specific, By Riccas in forum Duramax 06 LLY / 06+ LBZ & LMM. Expecially since Pre-Cat is difficult to get at. Our P2096 fault code problem has now been resolved. This is a TSB regarding the P2096 problem. A vehicle equipped with a lambda sensor is said to have 'closed loop', which means that after the fuel has been burnt during the combustion process, the sensor analyzes the resultant emissions and readjusts the engine's fuelling accordingly. please help. This allows measurement of a much wider air/fuel ratio. Upstream is before the Cat and downstream is after the cat. The product is excellent. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. In most cases, a vehicle with an inefficient catalytic converter will continue to run just fine. Downstream Rights means the rights that are acquired from the Downstream Operator by a User or the Downstream System counterparty user, in order to receive the Regasified LNG at a Regasified LNG Delivery Point. Carolina has been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver's license. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes. Our collection of training videos, articles, guides and information on training courses. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. How do I know which oxygen sensor to replace? Available for Windows, Mac, and Linux, the next evolution of our diagnostic scope software is now available. The best way to do this is to look at real-time data using a diagnostic tool. Common sources of contamination include an excessively rich fuel mixture condition or oil blow-by in an older engine and engine coolant being burnt in the combustion chamber as a result of an engine gasket leak. Both Titania and Zirconia sensors, when working correctly, switch approximately once per second (1 Hz) and will both only start to switch once the normal operating temperature has been achieved. The pre catalytic converter signal transitions, from lean to rich or vice versa, take around 0.5 s. The post catalytic converter sensor signal. functioning wise) Also, where can I buy a cheaper O2 sensor? Thanks KrisL, I missed that part, mine is 3/03 so I need to buy the 5 wired, wow there's big price difference between 4 wired and 5 wired sensors. Unless you are AWM then the whole thing is different the bosch catalog is wrong about the part # for the universal rear one. Gloucestershire GL56 0JQ. 2,500 rpm engine speed. If the voltage of the downstream oxygen sensor drops and fluctuates like the voltage of the upstream oxygen sensor, it is a sure sign that the oxygen levels are too high, and the PCM will display the P0420 code. Download manuals, brochures, posters, and training materials. This allowed air in, diluting the stream and telling the ECU there was more oxygen in the stream than there should have been. The oxygen sensor, otherwise known as the O2 sensor, does what its name suggests it measures the amount of oxygen in the exhaust. carolinasbmwmoa.org quickly gained a following, and Carolina now leads a team of contributors who share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs. These can all affect the oxygen sensors response characteristics, resulting in an extended response time or a shift in the sensor voltage curve and in the long run reduced sensor performance. 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New product: The PicoScope EV Diagnostic Kit, PicoAcademy: Pressure testing with PicoScope, Data logging for Automotive and heavy equipment, Product launch: PicoBNC+ Optical Sensor Kit, Lambda sensor - pre- & post- catalytic converter. The opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of the Club, who shall have no liability in respect of them or the accuracy of the content. Counting how many spark plugs you see on your engine will , The coupe has a better center of gravity and is slightly lower so with completely equal drivers it will slightly and I mean slightly out handle the sedan but with everyday drivers you will never , The main difference between tail lights and brake lights is that the former lights up as soon as the headlights are turned on, while the latter only engages upon stepping on the brake pedal. The ECU wont be able to adjust fuel trims properly. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, https://turbobricks.com/resources/O2sensors.pdf, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. do i have to lower exhaust pipe ? JavaScript is disabled. with unbelievable performance for the money. The regular software and driver updates are a real bonus. If you're electrically competent. The catalytic converter maintains the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio of 14.7:1. The outer electrode surface is exposed to the exhaust gases and is coated in a porous ceramic, with the inner coated surface exposed to fresh air. Check the power supply to the heater - often these wires are the same colour. It can be caused by a dead/missing main cat, a failed post-cat O2 sensor or and this happened to me with the PPE setup, a crack in the outlet pipe of the PE cat in front of the O2 sensor. Switch on the oximeter and connect the applied probe to the oximeter. Too little fuel produces nitrogen-oxide pollutants. Before giving out ANY information regarding cars, or any other items for sale, please satisfy yourself that any potential purchaser is bona fide. A sensing element sits inside the sensor, encased in a steel housing.